I have seen this in the temple boards of Kancheepuram and Madurai. I have no clue why they have this in the first place!Because God is common to all irrespective of any religion and why shouldnt a non Hindu enter the inner sanctum? Infact if you try to get hold of a copy of Kumudam dated February 23, 2004 - there is a very good article on page 17. The article informs you about the person or sthabathi who built the thangarathams or golden chariots for temples like Tirupathy, Marudamalai, Mangadu and various other famous temples. The stabathi who built these golden chariots is a Muslim called Alaudin! He was also instrumental for building the golden kodi maram (I dont know the english name) of Tiruvanamalai and Tiruthani. He has also built 5 Vimanas for the ISKCON temple in Bangalore! The article also describes that Alaudin keeps in mind the Agamas while preparing these things and also undergoes a rigorous fasting while doing it!
I have already written about my driver Yusuf in this blog:
http://naan-yaar.blogspot.com/2005/08/my-best-friend-in-past-3-days-i-have.html
As you all know he is a muslim and if you read my blog on him - u would see how he respected my religion. He used to partake in all the religious homams I had in my home, he used to circumbulate the sacred Holy Arunachala so many times with me, he used to partake in the abhishekams in temples etc.. So whenever he accompanied us into the inner sanctum of the temples, my mother used to call him by the name "Venkataraman"! Just incase someone stops him knowing him to be a non-hindu!
I assume its just the cleanliness issue that is being considered here. But how many of us Hindus are clean in the first place when going to temples? If I eat non-veg, I make sure that I dont go to the temple on that day and I go on the next day after having a head bath.
At this point of time, where there should be religious harmony, I guess these type of boards should be removed. Non hindus should be encouraged to come to temples. Then only they will have the opportunity to understand our great religion that preaches Universal Love.
Your views are welcome.
[Update: I just remembered an incident that happened a few days ago. My father's friend who is of pakistani origin (muslim) gave my father some money and asked him to buy some coconuts and flowers and told him to do pooja in a Shiva temple! He was telling my father the way to do the pooja! It seems he has almost 48 pillayar statues and last year my father brought one for him from Chennai!]
posted by Gnana Kirukan @ 10:35 PM
47 Comments:
What do i say - u have said it - I completely agree with you - and please hopefully we don't get comments from people who will say that muslims do the same.
Whatever the reasons before - i think we need to constantly update our thought process and change the rules accordingly. Though i don't even at that time whether the rule made any sense.
Atma - well said :) - the rule does not make sense at all :)
Parvti - What ur leaving us and going? No way - ur not leaving OK! :) Infact even I was thinking about the decision of quitting just some time back, then realized that blogging is the best way to free all the thoughts that arises in my mind!
Yeah sure - I wuld post funny stuff too (if I have any) :)..
Now dont tell that ur a stranger OK - ur like my sister/mother with respect to whatever age u are :) - so ur not a stranger :)
I am still waiting with the red rag :))
Parvati - my heart broke when I saw such a small comment from u - :))
What wuld happen to my blog if u and anand write small comments!I cant even imagine the dire consequences - so please do put ur thoughts in full :)
Parvati - he he :) - no problem - take ur time :) - I am thinking about my next topic at 5:14 am UK time :)) - so committed to blogging :))
All crap Arjuna..this is even more serious topic than Marriage IMHO. I wonder what's happening to you.!! Good god..thank you.! This is what the blogworld should be.
First, Have you ever been to Sringeri. I've been there a couple of times. I've seen Muslim women with their veil worshipping Saradambal.! I was thrilled. That is how it should be.!
Its nonsense to write that nonhindus can't enter temple etc.! Remember the story of Yesudas..Neither the church nor the temples accepted him.!
People have forgotten the very definition of Hindus/Brahmins etc.!! and created a stupid circle around them.!!
I hope these idiotic things end..so that we can live in a world of harmony.
Dear Arjuna,
I don't know why such boards exist cos the likelihood of anyone who is not a "Hindu" (please desist from referring to Sanathana Dharma by that gloriously distorted name) coming to a temple, even if such a person wanted to come to worship the deities in the inner sanctum, it is not wrong as Narayanan Sir pointed out...
maybe it's some fear left behind from the mughal invasions of the medieveal ages when temples were desecrated, this could have trickled down to the collective "Hindu" psyche and created a kind of wall.
I have no issues here - I only hope that no one enters a temple or any place of worship with the intention of causing destruction or disturbance -
otherwise there is no room for a discussion here (actually discussions come about because one imperfect being (such as myself) takes an issue o another imperfect human being instead of trying to resolve it by observing and arriving at solutions through clear observation...
your referring to me as Ramamnuja is totally unjustified - I have neither the Himalayan devotion he had nor the divine erudition he posessed.
you may of course kindly refer to me as RamanujaDasan Anand. this is the way it should be...
SARVAM SRIKRISHNAARPANAMASTHU!
Narayanan sir - I got a scare when I read ur first para :)) - then I had to read it again properly - I thought u were pissed off with me :))
I didnt know abt sringeri - since I have never been there..Its nice to know that there are many temples that allow non hindus to enter the inner sanctum.
As u said - there are still some temples with these types of boards and they have to be removed. If a non hindu wants to enter the inner sanctum just because of his love for the divine - he shuld be allowed to.
That reminds me - I should add one more thing in this blog..will do it now..
Anand - thanks for ur comments :) - sure I will call u by that name :)
Parvati - I am echoing ur views :)
good thoughts.
Hindu's only doing like this. I went to Church some years back and put a candle under the Asu's feet. Yella mathamum onru.
I had a family friend who was more hindu then most hindus - just a small detail he came from a muslim family - adopted hinduism but rfused to change his official religion. It doesnt make sense
i traveled to India with him and our friends - n we did what you did - gave him a hindu name while visiting the temples.
Its kind a sad tradition thats being held own - dont even know of its an old tradition or a new psuedo one - take guruvayur - KJ Jesudass is not allowed in - how sad.
In our temples here everyone visits everywhere. I've been to chinese temple with my friends and they gone to ours. God is god whicever name he is called.
Arjuna,
Temples and I seldom come together in a happy sentence!;)
I didn't know there were temples that didn't allow non-hindus to enter! That's hillarious actually!
Good post! :)
I am outta here. Because I cannot follow 102 comments and all that! :))
i think anyone who respects the practises should be allowed inside, irrespective of their religion.
assuming that a evangalist enters a temple, stands near the shrine and makes comments regarding idol worship, or mocks the religious practises, (ive spoken to ppl whove said that i worship monkeys and elephants, and stuff like hindusim is a barbaric form of worship etc frm evangalists) can the temple authorities throw the person out?? it would definatly spill over into a minority abuse issue with the number of political parties in india who r calmouring for public attention. then what can the temple authorities do with such a person?? nothing except allowing only hindus to enter. i think the rule has been enforced to avoid such issues.
but at the same time i think that any1 who doesnt mock the practises shud be allowed to enter, at the end of the day the person who translated the indian sacred books wasnt a hindu. in the end an undecisive utterly confused comment from me, hopefully enough fodder for ur goal of 100 comments.
well.. religion is jus an outlet for preaching some kind of similarity between ppl of the same kind...
many exploit it..
dont even get me started on it.. i'll rant thru the night!
..p..
Vatsan well said buddy.
only thing those jokers you mentioned do it right outside or opposite the temple ;)
I can write a special book about me and my evengie friends, they finally left me alone after umpteen failed attempts:)
that being said, I love Jesus,dont need someone to tell me that.
Anway try getting something like that about our God from the evengies, you will have more rains in Madras ;)
I think the restriction is reasonable, because it is a matter of faith.
Yesudas' incident has been quoted several times. He wanted to worship at Guruvayoor because he is a devotee of Krishna, but he is not ready to become a Hindu; why ?.
Prem
I don't understand this conversion business. What is the meaning of Yesudas doesn't want to become a Hindu.?
That to me is nonsense. Who started all these conversion business. IMHO Hinduism is a way of living..That's all. A person doesn't become a Hindu if he wears the sacred thread.!
How can one get converted. If one worships Allah he is a Muslim, Jesus a christian and Hindu Gods...a Hindu. Is that the criterion???
I have gone to churches myself and to Mosques as well. So Am I not a Hindu?? Or...Am I a Hindu really..what does that mean..I don't know.!
I see it this way, God is too big to be confined to a religion. Being open to people who want to explore another culture or relgion should be welcomed. I am not aware of other religion, the eseense of hinduism is the advaitha philosophy, the philosophy of oneness...Though people tend to worship many different forms all are one ! So if worshiping Rama or krishna is not different so is the case in worshipping ALlah or Jesus. Also i see temples as a place for spirtual belonging than a religious belonging.
Having said that it should be the responsibility of the person who enters the temple to respect the rules followed inside.
It was nice to read about ypur family being open to people from other religion. I too have a similar experience back home which was a nice feeling that folks back home have understanding and tolerance than being a religious fundamentalists.
every1, in hindusim there doesnt exist the concept of conversion like in other religions as such,one is either born a hindu or isnt one. simple as tat.
once when a christian who was working on the indian texts wanted to convert to hindusim and took his request to paramaacharya, who replied that its not possible to convert to hindusim as conversion is alien to hindusim, and asked him continue his work regarding the indian texts.
therefore the question of yesudas converting doesnt exist
Arjuna, I think the reason might be "Will these non-hindus know how to pray, in the traditional manner". There are a number of temples where I have seen non-hindus entering the temple worship the LORD. I guess it depends on who the trustees are.
parvati, like i said earlier yesudas love for krishna wud mean he can enter, yes, he should be allowed to enter,
but the essential question still unanswered is if a evanglist enters a temple (assuming ever1 can enter) and mocks religious practises, how do the temple authorities deal with it? how do they differenciate between the two types, one who comes becasue he wants to pray and the other to mock.
this decision is based more on politics thatn religion (sadly in india politics and religioin are interrelated)
Guys, I will be responding to each of ur individual comments. Vatsan has come up with a great question - and this also came into my mind.
Vatsan - your point is higly valid! A very good question! But if you see - within Hinduism itself there are different sects! Take the example of ISKCON! (sorry guys I dont intend to hurt the ISKCON followers). If you read their Bhagwad Gita or any other books written by Srila Prabhupada you would find that he constantly calls Lord Shiva - a Demi God - which is outrageous from my point of view!
One of the worst things I read in the Bhagwad Gita - As it is - is that he says only the the devotees of Lord Krishna can escape anger caused by lust! So he gives an example saying that Goddess Parvati agitated Lord Shiva for "SENSE PLEASURE" - Lord Shiva who was meditating agrees to the proposal and Lord Subhramanya was born! But he says Haridasa who was a devotee of Krishna when allured by Maya devi - he passed the test!
[Bhagwat Gita - As it was: Chapter 2, Verse 62]
Can anything be worse than this? How can such a religious person talk like this! My heart burnt when I read this! Doesnt he know how Lord Subramanya was born from Lord Shiva's third eye? My friend Sriram V Iyer was so hurt with this - he wanted to burn all the books of ISKCON!
So if you see - within our religion itself you have people who talk things that hurt the fellow beings!
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Again Guys since I know there are guys like Anand,Krishna and others who are followers of ISKCON - I dont intend to hurt your sentiments - I am just echoing my thoughts and my friend's thoughts! Whenever I read things like this - it causes so much of negative thoughts within me! I get angered by these things!
I am not advocating for Saiva Siddantha where they say Lord Siva is the supreme! I condemn that as well! I wanted to say that GOD is one - and I hate listening to crap saying this GOD is the supreme - that GOD is the supreme and inorder to prove that - they shouldnt talk crap and write stories hurting the others!
I once again apologize to Krishna, Anand and fellow ISKCON brothers if I have hurt their sentiments. I dont intend to as u all know. I just wanted to point out how within our religion there are so many differences!
Parvati - thanks for understanding :)..
I am not nervous - my only worry is that I shouldnt hurt the sentiments of anyone!
"I have started sounding like an agony aunty ! Sorry."
No ur not sounding like an agony aunt :))...
Dear Arjuna,
I can understand ur plight after reading some ISKCON books like AS-it-is. I do agree that any kind of crusade by going aggresive on other sof thot doesn't show the greatness of ones school of thought. Any school of thought should preach and propagate love, be it Vaishnava, Saiva, Shaktha and not hatred. Hence, please refrain from thoughts like "Burning books". Those kinds of thougts are Tamasic. They would'nt take anyone close to his /her God. Human being's nature is to think and act and not to gust out angst (tamasic). Even if u get that angst, show it on ur favorite deity, ask him to take off all kinds of tamasic behaviour in you. You are only going to lose ur human-ness by pouring out angst on other people. Propagate this thought to all your friends. Then only you will get to realize that God is nothing but love. Adore your God. Then you will get to adore every other God for God is love and nothing but Love. Ask ur favorite God to keep u saatvic by removing ur likings for tamasic food.
Also, I dont know if u know about this. Sri prabupada himself says that "praying Siva or any other god is not bad only if he asks him to take him closer to KRishna , who is nothing but Love" . Don't worship them for material benefits. He only calls those who worship them for material benefites as RASCALS coz they lie in the ignorant mode.
In tulasi ramayan, Lord rama himseld says that "without adoring Sankara (Lord Shiva) man cannot attain devotion to Me". Why does he say so?
Coz Shiva is the greatest vaishnavaites.
If you are peaceful, free of material attachement, compassionate to all living beings and purely devout and devoid of any hatred , then only u wont find any difference in anything. U might like to say "Siva is Love" or "Vishnu is love". Since all Gods are messengers os Love , there is actually no difference in them intrinsically.
Take as example the lives of saints like Tualsi das, tyagayya et al . Tyagayya was named after the temple deity of tiruvarur "tyagaraja". It is as if like Shiva himself comming down to earth with nadabrahmam to please his hero, sita rama.
In the krithi "Evarunnaru", tyagayya , the great rama bhaktha,sings in praise
of Shiva
"Who is there to protect me ?
To meditate whole heartedly , to stabilize the mind and worship , you give me determination.
Such should be the kind of worship towards Shiva or any other god.
In the krithi, Sambho Shiva shankara,
he sings in praise of siva as
"Shatterer of the ego of the
insane people who quarrel in the name of religion"
Why don't we keep them as role models and live our lives , instead of wasting time in debating about trivial issues , my dear friend ,arjuna. Let us all try our best to develop that kind of love.
Narayanan -
Isn't "way of life" same as religion ?.
As I mentioned before, it is a matter of faith. You might have visited a church or a darga, but that doesn't make you a christain or a muslim. Your religion is where your faith is.
There are people who do not have any religious affiliations, but still believe in God, and there are people who do not believe in God.
Yesudas' contention is same as yours, why cannot I worship Krishna at Guruvayoor and still be a christian. For him Krishna and Jesus are the same, so isn't it fair that he respects the reason behind restriction - which I think he now does.
Regards
PA
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Dear Krishna - thanks for ur comments. I agree with you. I dont see any difference between Hari and Shiva. Being an advaitist - I dont see any difference between Jesus,Allah, Narayana, Shiva etc..
What I am criticising is the people who spread negative vibrations/thoughts! They shouldnt do it! Because for a lesser mortal like me - it irritates and pains! It causes me anger!
But when starts saying some X is GOD whereas Lord Shiva is some demigod - I cant tolerate it!How can you tolerate when someone says ur mother is inferior than theirs? We cant isnt it? That's what I am trying to say! For a hardcore Shaivite like me - for whom Lord Arunachala is everything - I cant tolerate to see others criticizing my Divine Mother, Father and Guru!
History says even the Shaivaite saints never tolerated anything against Lord Shiva! They always advocated for Him! They had several arguments with Jains/Buddhists!
So inorder to prove that some God is supreme - u shuld never distort facts,create stories and hurt the lesser mortals like me. I have'nt reached ur stage of devotion - and it takes time for me to cultivate the sattvic qualities.
Krishna -
"Why don't we keep them as role models and live our lives , instead of wasting time in debating about trivial issues , my dear friend ,arjuna. Let us all try our best to develop that kind of love. "
Then I wouldnt have anything to write in my blog mate :))
Krishna
"Allah Thum Ho Ishwar Thum Ho
Thumhi Ho Ram Rahim Thumhi Ho Ram Rahim
Yeshu Thum Ho Nanak Thum Ho
Zorastra Bhi Ho Mahavir Thum Ho
Gauthama Buddha Karim Gauthama Buddha Karim
Mere Ram Mere Ram Ram Rahim (3)
O Lord! You are known by many names: Allah, Ishwara, Ram,
Rahim, Jesus, Guru Nanak, Zoroaster, Mahavir,
Karim and Krishna"
- One of my favourite SAI bhajan!
Krishna - Moreover I was wondering what is the use of the dvaitist fighting with an advaitist or a vishista-advaitist like Anand arguing with an Advaitist like me or kasthuri! I dont see anything other than a clash of egos trying to prove their supremacy!
Our knowledge should be used to fight ignorant aethists who deny the basic existence of GOD!
Dear Arjuna
Whenever you get thoughts like
"- it irritates and pains! It causes me anger! "..
direct your anger towards HIM, your father , mother, your everything. A father won't get angry even when his child gets angry with him. He is the best person to take care of your anger.
Directing towards anyone will simply breed contempt and arguments.
If you are a true advaitin, you should consider everything (including what u hate now ) as HIM. of course , that is the final objective of an advaitin. IF you keep developing negative thougts like this , how are you going to get any closer to that state?
--"Our knowledge should be used to fight ignorant aethists" --
Let us not fight for any reason. arguments are good, but let there be no fight. Even whilst arguing, ethics should be defined and maintained.
You don't really have to bring these kind of issues in your blogpost that seem to bring only futile arguments. Instead there are lot many things that u might want to right about. I am sure that you WILL find them by just a little bit of thinking.:)
--"Then I wouldnt have anything to write in my blog mate :))--"
get to that state mate and get to there quickly. For how long do you think you will be a part of this blogosphere. U know right? :)
--"But when starts saying some X is GOD whereas Lord Shiva is some demigod"--
It doesnt really matter if X is some demigod , or if some Y is some God . All gods are Sujana Priyas and they will be symbols of Love , knowledge and Satva for all those . Only the ignorant fight over religion sub-religions. Do yo find Tyagayya wasting his time over these arguments?
Whenever you pray them , ask ONLY devotion and love towards him. If you develop that kind of love for him , you wont get angried even with the greatest of the sinners because even the they are childrend of HIM.
Shambo Mahadeva
sri krishnaapanam
O Madhusudhana,
I really dont think this topic is futile - dont u think its a responsibility for us to remove social stigmas?
Non-hindus not allowed Perhaps this should be correct if we define who is a Hindu more clearly...
I would like thank each and everyone of u who have commented in this blog :)
Parvati and Krishna - r u guys happy now ? :))
Prem
Good point on Faith. I agree 100%
Fantastic post and so many positive responses.. I agree with you that these restrictions thru notice boards should not be imposed anymore... I remember seeing them in Madurai Meenakshi Amman temple...
Very well said! Relationships like this need to exist to keep harmony among us. My Hindu and Muslim friends would come home for Christmas and I've been invited to attend the temple festivals and Ramzan at their place.
And I wanted to go for a darshan in Guruvayur temple but I will have to pick a Hindu name to get an entry.
Ram - thanks a lot :)
jo - thanks a lot - ur guruvayur episode is interesting :)
Hi
I rarely get angry (Arjuna can vouch for it).
Saying "if you are an advaitin, you see no difference between gods" etc is all crap.
Why dont ISKCON people simple acknowledge that there are other paths? I bet they would not. Since for them, there is no other way for redemption other than Krishna.
Instead they talk of Rama telling Shiva is the way of reaching me, Tyagaraja is Shiva singing about Rama etc. Will you ever change?
Stop teaching others and try to look inwards.
To insult any other God is like hurting the feeling of all His/ Her followers. What can be more Tamasic than this?
I love Sri Krishna by my heart that I am moved to tears when I think of Him.
I am still human. I will not tolerate anyone trying to insult Shiva or Sri Subrahmanya. Let me rot in Hell if I feel like burning books that demean them. I care a hoot.
For people who support and still believe in advising the rest - "Cut the crap!"
Regards
Sriram
Sriram
Shanthi , Shanthi , Shanthi :)
Naanyaar,
to say d least, UR A LOCO...u dunno wot ur talkin abt in dis blog of urs...
if ppl had to go by ur blog, then temples wud be blown up by fanatics n terrorists LOOOOOOOOONG BACK!!!
n u never know d intentions of non Hindus, some enter d temple w gud intentions, some bad n some w ugly intentions...i dont tink we need such pigs in temples!!!
btw my blog is on o3-rage against the mad dogs!!!
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