Tuesday, August 16, 2005


Inside the mind of a blind man




Before I start the topic - I just want to say that I am not starting a B-grade topic here. I have been contemplating about this question for a long time since I saw BLACK and I guess its high time I get an answer to it.

In BLACK, a scene comes where Rani Mukherjee wants a kiss from her teacher Amitabh Bachan. She is yearning to be loved - so I dont see any lust in there..But a question arose to me..

Will a man who has been blind by birth have any kind of lust within him? He would have never seen his opposite sex to be attracted towards them. He wouldnt even know how a girl would look like. A man's mind is always pure during birth. Only when he grows up, the things he sees and hears make his mind corrupt. So in case of a blind man - he does not see anything bad and if he is also deaf then he would not hear anything bad - so arguably he should not get any lustful feelings - Isnt it? Am I right here?

41 Comments:

At August 16, 2005 9:13 AM, Blogger TJ said...

A just born calf or a baby, knows how to find the mother's breast and how to get the milk.
Also, if the deaf and blind, will remove a sweater if he is made to wear one in chennai summer. Yet nobody would have told him to do so, or he would not have seen anybody do it.

Instincts is the answer for your Q! And lust is the Basic Instinct ;)

 
At August 16, 2005 9:19 AM, Blogger ioiio said...

TJ
Basic Instincts padathukku pinnaadi ipdi oru thathuvam irukkunnu puriya vecha "Kan Thirandha Deivam" neenga

 
At August 16, 2005 11:33 AM, Blogger Sriram C S said...

In a sense what TJ says is right. The sex instinct or the idea of desiring the body of the opposite sex is a simple automatic mechanism that will make sure a race is sustained. TJ has rightly used the example of a baby finding the mother's breast to suckle up to. In fact, it this instinct that drives a man to reach for a woman's breast during the time of intercourse. On the other side, the instinct of the mother to hold the child's head when she feeds it is what drives her to hold the man's head from the behind when he kisses her or touches her. A man generally does not hold the woman's head when engaged in intercourse. Got to rush now...more later!!!

 
At August 16, 2005 12:19 PM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

tj - But is lust a basic instinct? See all the examples you said do not have any form..so its a basic instinct..But when it comes to lust - it is associated with a particular physical form which requires visual stimulus..

 
At August 16, 2005 12:22 PM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

Agnibharathi - Wow - you seem to have a passion to whatever your write :)..I am quite awestruck with your visualizations :)..Nice ones..But again, as I pointed out to TJ, how can a blind man be stimulated without even seeing a person? What will he visualize?

 
At August 16, 2005 1:13 PM, Blogger sen said...

Arjun,
A blind man looses only one sense all the other sense do work for him.And also vision is not the only way by which one learns.

 
At August 16, 2005 4:08 PM, Blogger B said...

I agree with senses and instincts being the reason. Also the blind man have arms to feel his own body as well as a woman's body (if she is there nearby).

 
At August 16, 2005 5:45 PM, Anonymous Jacky said...

Sexual desires come with the growth irrespective of him/her visually personifying the object of lust. Infact the object of lust can only enhance lust, it can never be the origin of lust. There was no written manual for the barbarians to learn the techniques of making love yet there was no stopping reproduction! Lust is innate (only the levels vary) – incase of visually challenged curiosity results in the urge.

 
At August 16, 2005 7:36 PM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

sen - thanks for ur putting ur views in :)

 
At August 16, 2005 7:37 PM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

bala - ok so I guess everyone unanimously says that lust is something innate :)

 
At August 16, 2005 7:37 PM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

Jacky - as I said to Bala - I guess its an innate feeling..

 
At August 16, 2005 8:03 PM, Anonymous Gani said...

It is pheromones which are secreted in your body that attract you to the opposite sex. Eyes definitely aid in attraction but it's not the sole agent. The smell of the opposite sex's pheromones instigates one's hormones.
May be thats the reason when Rani and Amitabh get close together they smell it and their hormones are activated. Probably thats why they say panjum neruppum pakkathilae and not just panjum neruppum..May be there is more to it, but I guess Pheromones is definitely one reason.

 
At August 16, 2005 9:26 PM, Anonymous tamilselvan said...

Mr.Agnibarathi,

Please talk more..You have lot of sarakku....

 
At August 16, 2005 9:31 PM, Blogger Kasthuri Srinivasan said...

Arjuna,
Lust or Kama is not an instinct or a desire created after we are born. It is there in our subconscious - rooted deep within. Hinduism says one has to be born as a human after 184000 births. Its an evolution. And lust or kama is like a chain that follows even after we die. In fact, it is one of the reasons that puts back into this earthy plane of existence. But, the beauty of spirituality is that these things in our subconcious can be transformed into energy in just one birth if we are sincere enough. So, even a blind man - why a blind animal has lustful feelings. There is no way we can get rid of this lust, but, we can chanalise it to use it as a spiritual energy. The whole world of kundalini and tantra techniques deal with this science.

 
At August 16, 2005 9:50 PM, Blogger Kasthuri Srinivasan said...

"Will a man who has been blind by birth have any kind of lust within him? He would have never seen his opposite sex to be attracted towards them. He wouldnt even know how a girl would look like. A man's mind is always pure during birth. Only when he grows up, the things he sees and hears make his mind corrupt. So in case of a blind man - he does not see anything bad and if he is also deaf then he would not hear anything bad - so arguably he should not get any lustful feelings - Isnt it? Am I right here?"

Now after having said what lust means to me...let me also try to answer these questions.

In these questions you are assuming lust as something bad. No-there is no question of bad/good according to Hindu philosophy when it comes to God. It is just the question of realization. I think a blind man will have a lustful feeling and there is nothing wrong with lust as such. It just sticks you more to this plane. Purity of mind needs effort. A man's mind may/may not be pure in birth. If he is a highly evolved soul then he'll be pure by birth due to his past life's spiritual efforts. Otherwise, his mind will have previous samskaras/vasanas and lust comes with such package and there is nothing wrong as such.

Hari Om.

 
At August 16, 2005 11:13 PM, Blogger krishna said...

I totally agree with u ,Kasthuri..Great response..

Yeah..This has all been clearly voiced out by the great SK in his book on Jnana Yoga where he has succinctly explained the reasons behind re-birth y shuld one believe in rebirth and in the same context explains the insinctive feelings like fear that comes out of experience in previous birth..



Also ,,there is one puranic story that i've read where a king who decides to take the spiritual path by seeking refuge in a secluded place only to
find his resolution being yielded to a beautiful dear struggling for its life under the claws of creature..He loses his heart to the dear , saves and takes it to his hermitage . He ,then slowly develops love towards the animal..and because of that he is born as a deer in his next birth..

I guess we've got some related case here...:)

 
At August 17, 2005 12:16 AM, Blogger RS said...

Man is a man whether blind, deaf or mute and so it is for a woman. Attraction is born out of the senses but love and affection is born out of mutual respect and affection.

For attraction, love, affection and respect, visuals are more of an enhancer than a necessity.

What you see might not be the same as what you perceive and what you perceive might not be the same as what is actually there!

 
At August 17, 2005 1:22 AM, Blogger krishna said...

@ ramya

What you see might not be the same as what you perceive and what you perceive might not be the same as what is actually there!

very True...so let us not get foxed

 
At August 17, 2005 1:33 AM, Blogger Narayanan Venkitu said...

Not sure.! I watched the movie as well. ! I see blind people dating , getting married etc.!

 
At August 17, 2005 4:21 AM, Blogger Sriram C S said...

Arjun, sight is not the only sense required for the feeling of lust (or any other craving or desire) to be generated in a human. To go back to our example of the baby, even a blind baby would grope around and find his/her mother's breast. In fact, the instinct to feed one's hunger by mother's milk precedes the ability of a child to see and recognize objects. After all, it is the five senses that act as windows to our wolrd.

 
At August 17, 2005 5:03 AM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

gani - thanks for dropping in and giving your comments :)..

Yes - smell plays an important factor for the blind..

 
At August 17, 2005 5:20 AM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

Kasthuri and Krishna - thanks for your comments :)..Yes, I agree with you all the lust is something that is innate and is also a deterrent for a spiritual aspirant..

I was shocked when I read a chapter on Paramahansa Yogananda's Man's Eternal Quest - where he clearly says a man should have sex with his wife only once in his lifetime!!!

If you read the "Aghori III - Law of Karma" by Robert E Svoboda - he says that every time you lose your semen unnecessarily, you are infact preventing many souls from birth!! These souls then become insects!! Scary!! :)

Krishna - yes I know that story of the saint becoming a deer in his next birth..

Moreover, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says that lust is something which everyone has..He said even he gets lustful feelings and as Kasthuri pointed out - Ramakrishna Paramahamsa said that this energy needs to be channelised to some other activity.

Infact Krishna says in Bhagwat Gita that he is present in lust as well!!

 
At August 17, 2005 5:23 AM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

Ramya - the reason the question came in my mind was that a man is stimulated by his visual senses..While a woman is not..She prefers to be cared, loved etc..But I guess incase of a blind man - he may have a different way of visualising things..and the factors you said may come to play in his circumstances..

 
At August 17, 2005 5:23 AM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

narayanan sir - thanks for your comments :)..

 
At August 17, 2005 5:24 AM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

agnibharathi - nice ones again :)

 
At August 18, 2005 1:16 AM, Blogger Aatma said...

Arjun, I think you missed the point of the scene. Everyone needs that special someone in their life. Think about it, after a certain age, automatically, even though u have loving parents, brothers, sisters and friends. Why does our heart yearn for that one special relationship. And that relationship becomes the main relationship of our life. And that need is not a physical need but a something far more than that.

When Rani asks Amitabh to kiss, her needs were was for that someone special - who could make her life complete - who would drive away her loneliness and who would be best person - other than her teacher who was the only person who understood her - thats why she asks him to kiss.

 
At August 18, 2005 1:18 AM, Blogger Aatma said...

And Lust my friend, as many have said before, the mechanisim is inbuilt. We need to control it, don't worry about where it comes from

 
At August 18, 2005 5:41 AM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

Aatma - I will never agree that your wife's love is better than your mother's love!! :)

For me, mother's love is the epitome of selfless divine love..wife love-ellam just selfish - orai thaali sentiment! :)..dont get her a saree and you dont get dinner ;)

 
At August 18, 2005 6:25 PM, Anonymous Jacky said...

Mothers love is the epitome -no doubts but just like lust and other inbuilt feelings, mothers love is also inbuilt, she doesn't take special efforts to love her kid. You wife will love your kid the same way no matter if you keep her happy or not. Whist a relationship with ones wife needs intimate physical and emotional bonding and should be nurtured time and again, these are again Laws of Nature. IMO, they shouldn't be compared.

 
At August 18, 2005 6:48 PM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

jacky - are you married ? ;)

 
At August 18, 2005 7:13 PM, Blogger Aatma said...

Well said Jacky. BTW Arjun I was not comparing Love between a mother and a wife. I personally believe Love(from different people) can never be compared.

And looks like u are neither married or have no intentions of that ;)

 
At August 19, 2005 12:05 AM, Anonymous Jacky said...

lol@arjuna!
Nah, not married yet!

 
At August 19, 2005 4:53 AM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

aatma - I am not married yet! I have no intentions either - but the society will not allow me to do so - so I got to marry some pretty girl ;) - LOL

 
At August 19, 2005 4:54 AM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

jacky - :) - maybe after marriage you may not think the same ;)

 
At August 19, 2005 5:25 AM, Anonymous Jacky said...

Arjuna,
That's not fair to the girl you're marrying.
Or have you found the PremaJayendrananda way to be attractive?
JK :)

 
At August 19, 2005 5:46 AM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

jacky - what is not fair ? ;)

 
At August 19, 2005 6:29 AM, Anonymous JACKY said...

Marrying for the sake of parents or society! You can never be a good husband.

 
At August 19, 2005 5:30 PM, Blogger Aatma said...

Jacky, Arjuna is just being a typical guy, oh i will not marry, the moment he sees a girl that he likes, man will be like, when did i ever say that :)

The person who said that Inner Beauty is important, constantly says that he wants to marry a beautiful girl. tch tch didn't expect that from you Arjuna ;)

 
At August 22, 2005 8:52 PM, Blogger Mumbai Ramki said...

AgniBharathi ,

As per ur logic ,

"The sex instinct or the idea of desiring the body of the opposite sex is a simple automatic mechanism that will make sure a race is sustained. TJ has rightly used the example of a baby finding the mother's breast to suckle up to.On the other side, the instinct of the mother to hold the child's head when she feeds it is what drives her to hold the man's head from the behind when he kisses her or touches her"


How do you explain for a girl child searching for her mother's breasts for feeding ?

Is it not the case that a man's hug happens much before child is born ?Iam not sure if we want to attribute each and everything to sex ( as Sigmund Freud) ...We need to carefully examine all these things .


Iam really appalled to see people just dumping their own intellectual thoughts ..not bothering how a blind man actually feels .....

A blind man ( or woman ) always lives in fear - he alway lives in insecurity .He is always frustarted ,he can never learn quickly , mostly he always needs some body's help ...If at all we want to discuss ,we need to go as close to a mind mind of blind man and understand his feelings ....

 
At August 23, 2005 6:10 AM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

Aatma and Jacky - :))..

 
At August 23, 2005 6:11 AM, Blogger Arjuna_Speaks said...

MR - Interesting thoughts - what say Agni? :)

 

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